Mike Plotnikoff Has Worked with Rock/Metal’s Leading Talent

A complete transcript of our conversation can be found below!

Warren Huart:

Hi everybody. I hope you’re doing marvelously well. I’m here with the rather wonderful Mike Plotnikoff. How are you?

Mike Plotnikoff:

Hello, Warren. Nice to have you hear in my studio.

Warren Huart:

Thanks for having us by.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah.

Warren Huart:

I want to get a little background. Then I’d like to sort of talk about recording.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Sure.

Warren Huart:

And I see there’s some guitar amps mic’d up there. I’d love to know some … how you do that, what your preferred amps are.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah. Sure. We could go through that. So you lead me through and I’ll answer your questions the best I can.

Warren Huart:

Marvelous. You’ve got a lot of great history that I want to get into.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Okay. Yeah. Sure.

Warren Huart:

You did an Aerosmith record, didn’t you?

Mike Plotnikoff:

I did. I did Get a Grip. Actually my first record I can say that I … I engineered some smaller projects that were unsigned in my early days of like where I had to go find a band at a club in Vancouver where I grew up at Little Mountain. They always encouraged you to go find somebody when there was downtime. You would bring these bands in.

Warren Huart:

Great.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Record them, produce them. They had no money, but you go in on a Friday. You come out Monday morning, right? And you’d have a three or four song demo and then yeah. I was the assistant engineer on Aerosmith Get a Grip. And just happened in the last bit of the record I ended up engineering and was mixed by Brendan O’Brien, but yeah. That was kind of the first big record I worked on as an engineer. Not as an assistant.

Warren Huart:

How was the experience?

Mike Plotnikoff:

It was great. It’s like at first I never wanted to be an assistant. I always wanted to be an engineer, but I remember that first day when I was actually sat in the engineering seat and I was recording guitars with Joe.

Warren Huart:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Mike Plotnikoff:

And we were trying to get a sound and I just remember my heart was pounding. I didn’t even know if I was breathing. Like and I was an assistant already for four years, for quite a while, but now there is no engineers. Just Bruce Fairbairn and the band and me trying to get a guitar toner. I remember running something through 1176 and for some reason it went on to distortion. And the meters were all pinned and I’m going like … I couldn’t figure out what was going on. And I tried not to panic. And I remember Joe going, “That’s amazing! Like what are you doing? That’s the perfect sound.” I was going, “Okay.”

Warren Huart:

Yeah.

Mike Plotnikoff:

So I got away with it. So then I kind of started learning, maybe just go with it. Whatever happens and yeah. So that was a fun project and it ended up I was supposed to just engineer a couple days of record. We had to spend a lot more time on it. So-

Warren Huart:

You ended up doing quite a lot on the album.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah. I did quite a lot on the back end of the overdubs of the record.

Warren Huart:

Great.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah. So it was a lot of fun.

Warren Huart:

Working with Bruce must have been insane.

Mike Plotnikoff:

It was. It was. It was.

Warren Huart:

It was on fire in those days.

Mike Plotnikoff:

It was on fire. And the first record I worked with, with Bruce, was an ACDC live record. So it was Live At Donington and I was the assistant engineer. I just remember they sent, I don’t know how many reels, of two inch tape. 200 reels of two inch tape and we spent probably a month going through it, editing it all together, and then the band came up and, “We replaced as far as the live record goes.” A lot was redone in the studio. All Angus’s solos were kept from the original, but a lot of the vocals redone, some the bass, some the rhythm guitars were out of tune. We spent quite a while, probably three months on the live record in the studio. And then I assisted with Bruce for a couple other records and then after the Aerosmith record, then he thought, “Okay. Well Mikey could be my engineer.” So then after that I engineered the Cranberries with him, Van Halen Balance, and then I did INXS Elegantly Wasted, KISS Psycho Circus, Scorpions.

Warren Huart:

And that was all in Canada?

Mike Plotnikoff:

That was all in Canada. We would travel. Cranberries actually we did in Ireland. Yeah. Windmill Lanes. So we recorded and then I mixed the record in Vancouver. So at Bruce’s studio, which was The Armoury at the time because Little Mountain had closed down. I don’t know if you’ve been The Armoury, but beautiful studio. We had Jim Vallance built it for a writing room, but that’s a big writing room. Bruce ended up buying the studio. So we made quite a bit of records in there until 1999, until he passed. And we were doing a Yes record. You guys were talking about Yes. So I just started mix. I mixed the Yes record as well. Tracked it and mixed it. And it was in the middle of the mixes and Bruce didn’t show up.

Warren Huart:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Mike Plotnikoff:

Found out he passed and yeah. So that was my career with Bruce.

Warren Huart:

Where were you born?

Mike Plotnikoff:

I was born in a small place called Grand Forks, British Columbia. If you were in Spokane, Washington and you drove 120 miles straight north and you hit the border, you would end up in Grand Forks, British Columbia.

Warren Huart:

So you’re around the border.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Right on the border.

Warren Huart:

Yep.

Mike Plotnikoff:

So and it was about five hours to Vancouver, 300 miles to Vancouver, and when I graduated high school I was with my … I’ve been with my wife since I was 15 and-

Warren Huart:

Oh. Fantastic.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah. So my wife and I … I go, “I’m going to be a recording engineer. That’s what I want to do.” My brother was in a band. My dad was always like a singer in a men’s choir and lead singer in the men’s choir. Everybody was musical in my family. I was the least musical. And I always wanted to be a great guitar player and bass player when I was young. And my brother was always better than me and my cousin’s … Our family was really close. And everybody in my family, especially my dad’s side was super musical. They’d played multiple instruments, everything. So and I was the worst, but I wanted to play, but they were … I could just never play as good as them. So I went more into sports when I was young, but I always wanted to play with sounds. I was always messing around with the PA, and the flangers, and all the chorus pedals, and the amps, and stuff.

Mike Plotnikoff:

And everybody always thought, “Oh. You got great guitar sounds.” And then I remember one time when I was in high school and this other kid in my high school who was a really good guitar … He was like a virtuoso guitar player. Never did anything with it, but in one of those days everybody … Randy Rose was big in that day and Eddie Van Halen. And they could listen to the song once and play any song. I remember him going to me, “You know you got really good guitar sounds. And you get like your … All these things you do with the amps is really cool. You should be a recording engineer.” I’m like, “Recording engineer, what’s that?” And just like a light bulb went off in my head and go, “Yes.” It just was like that’s what I want to be. I didn’t even know what it was and it just it was this. So I knew that I had to go to Vancouver. And so I finished high school.

Mike Plotnikoff:

And I still thought I was going to be a professional motocross racer actually, but then injuries killed that. So I thought well, let me try this recording engineer thing out. So I moved to Vancouver with my wife and thought, “Okay. Little Mountains, that’s Bob Rock and Bruce Fairbairn are working there and they’re doing Bon Jovi, and Aerosmith, and AC/DC. I got to work in that studio.” So I remember going.

Warren Huart:

That’s good thinking.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah. So I remember going to the studio. I went every single Friday for six months and bugged them for a job until finally they said, “Okay. You can come in at 4:00 when all the staff leave and you can clean the ashtrays and answer the phones until midnight.” So that’s kind of how I got my foot in the door.

Warren Huart:

Was it paid or was it an internship?

Mike Plotnikoff:

No. It was an internship. Nothing. There was no money. There was just you answer the phones. You’re just lucky to be here. And it was a thing where I think for every eight hours you worked in the studio, they gave you a free studio hour, which that’s why they encourage you then you have to go find the band. So you’d save all these hours, go find a band.

Warren Huart:

That’s good thinking.

Mike Plotnikoff:

It started there, but obviously I just didn’t want to answer phones. So I remember I go, “Well, I got to learn how all this stuff works.” And I remember they had two rooms there, two SSL rooms. So I’d always bring a boombox to the studio with me. So when everybody left the studio at midnight or 2:00 in the morning, I was supposed to leave at 12, but I would stay after because they gave me the code anyways to lock up. They were really lenient there. And I would just go set up the boombox, try all the mics in every direction in the room, try every mic, what they sound like, run it through the console, and every piece of gear until I figured out how everything worked. And then also I was always a big fan of Bob Rock’s records. So I was a big fan of “Doctor Feelgood” at the time. And Bob Rock, he was like God up there. I wanted to be like him.

Mike Plotnikoff:

I’m going like, “Wow. You just get such good sounds.” And his records are amazing. And just his whole persona is so … I remember back then on the SSL when he would do a mix or tracking, everything was on a Bernoulli. You remember the Bernoulli’s back then? So I remember buying my first Bernoulli. I saved up enough money so I could buy a Bernoulli. And I would go in and after he would be in there for a session I would copy all his EQ settings. And I had my patch chart into gear. So I’d write down all the gear. Like I would take a perfect like a recall of whether he was recording or mixing. And then I would come in there and try to … Okay. This is where he put the tom mic and this is where he put the … I put the Bernoulli in and I’d bring a band in there. They’d set up their drums and I’d match the EQ exactly. Okay. He had this patch going through this piece of gear and that piece of gear.

Mike Plotnikoff:

And I’d listen. I’d go, “It doesn’t sound like that.” This sounds horrible. This is like terrible, but I would just keep trying and that’s kind of how I built my chops. It’s funny because when people ask me, “Oh. How do you do that, sir?” They always want to know about compression. That’s the most thing I ever get asked about. Nobody asks about EQ or mic positions. Like, “What are you doing with compression?” I go, “I don’t know to tell you the truth.” I just go does it sound good in the mix?

Warren Huart:

Yeah.

Mike Plotnikoff:

And honestly I don’t use a lot of compression. It’s like I try to keep it very natural. And I remember even working with Bruce Fairbairn, he would hate when I’d put compression on. I’d put some compression, “Do you got compression on that?” I’d go, “Yeah.” “Why? Take it off. Yeah. It sounds way better. Take it. Why do you got that on?” Yeah. Okay. Take it off. I’d be like all like … But he’ll come down. Well, I thought it sounded cool, but I guess it doesn’t.

Warren Huart:

Yeah.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah everybody always asks me about attack and release. I go, I don’t know. I just if I feel like it needs compression, I’ll use a little bit.

Warren Huart:

Yeah. I think there’s a sort of mystery. What I sometimes say to people if they want to mess around with attack and release times is like take a drum loop and just see how you can get it so it’s just the transience coming through. Like pop, pop, pop, pop. Or you can do the opposite. Bring up all that room energy and suddenly it’s all swamped in like what the … But yeah. I agree there’s a lot of mumbo jumbo. Sometimes I’ve seen interviews with people where mixers talk about timing the attack and release to the song and I’m just like, “How does that work?”

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah.

Warren Huart:

Soon as somebody plays a 16th note out-

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah. It changes.

Warren Huart:

Changes.

Mike Plotnikoff:

It’s done. Right. Yeah.

Warren Huart:

Yeah.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah.

Warren Huart:

Yeah. There’s a lot of sort of confusion of that subject.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah. Again, it’s an ear thing. You could hear when it’s obviously compressing too much, or not enough, or you need a little more release. So it’s all by ear. Like and it’s always like, “That’s pretty good.”

Warren Huart:

Yeah.

Mike Plotnikoff:

To me everything, if it’s pretty good it always works. Like I’m never going like, “I got to go for this amazing thing.” Or this has to be like … Yeah. That’s pretty good. Yeah. That works. It doesn’t bother me, so it’s okay.

Warren Huart:

Yeah.

Mike Plotnikoff:

And if it doesn’t bother me, 99% of the time it doesn’t bother anybody else. So that’s what I’ve learned. So I go okay. If it doesn’t bother me, it’s pretty good, I’m okay. So my whole thing is almost pretty good. If it’s pretty good, pretty good. Okay. That’s good. It’s going to work.

Warren Huart:

Before we move into the gear a little bit …

Mike Plotnikoff:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Warren Huart:

Now Bruce Fairbairn, he had a run there of albums which were just phenomenal. Slippery When Wet of course, Pump, Permanent Vacation were just like before you came on board. I mean those are all the biggest selling albums.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah. Yeah. Bruce was just, he’s super musical. He is very good in … He was just one of those guys that he saw the big picture. Again, like Howard. For Bruce, it was really about the songs. He really worked with the band. Here’s what the song is. Here’s what the structure is. And he wasn’t afraid to take chances and go, “Well, this arrangements a little strange. It’s not your basic cookie cutter arrangement. That’s okay.” “Oh. Somebody played a little mistake, but that mistake is cool.” He wasn’t afraid of that. He knew what worked and what didn’t work. And he was a horn player. So he had a really good sense of music and arrangement.

Warren Huart:

That’s fantastic. Yeah.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah.

Warren Huart:

Those records still all stand up. And it was interesting working with Jack Douglas with Aerosmith and he’s a smart guy. He’s like, Yep. We all know it’s Toys, and Rocks, Pump, Permanent Vacation, Get A Grip. I mean he knows that those records were fantastic as well.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Warren Huart:

There’s no sort of ego because he didn’t produce them.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah.

Warren Huart:

Those are all the moments of Aerosmith which are their finest.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah. Yeah. And Bruce taught me so much too. Again, like he had the discussion with Howard earlier a lot.

Warren Huart:

Yep.

Mike Plotnikoff:

He was, same thing, very business orientated, but also he had the musical sense as well and he put that together. And he ran a tight shift too. Like we always started at the same time. It was like we always started at noon. We always took a break at 5:30 for dinner and we start back up at 7:00 and work until 9:00 and take Sundays off. It was everything was like in order. That he stayed on that script all the time. It would never vary. So I learned that because then I started working with other people and it was like all over the place. It was a different start time. Sometimes you start at 3:00. And you get mixed up. You don’t know where you are. And then I started working with Howard and he was the same thing. You start at this time. You end at this time. Everything was like it’s always in the calendar. We knew what we were doing on those days. So we made records like that. And that’s the only way I knew to make records. And that’s why it worked when I started working with Howard.

Mike Plotnikoff:

I made the same record. He was that same person. He’d treat it like a real job. Not like, “Oh. We’re just having fun in the studio. And maybe we’re going to go to 3:00 in the morning now.” Because we always found it. After 12:00 we ended up coming back and redoing everything. As much as we thought we got some great stuff, which we did, but most of the time you came back and you have to redo it. But then you’re burning yourself out as you get later into the record. And then if we have another record after it, it’s not fair to the other artist who’s coming in after you worked on this crazy record with this other band. So if we treat everybody the same way, everybody gets our 100% focus.

Warren Huart:

Absolutely.

Mike Plotnikoff:

And that’s what we try to give everybody that we work with. If we’re coming in here, I’m going to come in here excited to start at 11:00 and you’re going to have me 100% focused for that entire time. And I’m not going to, “Oh. I was here until 4:00 in the morning and I’m so tired I don’t feel like doing anything.” And you kind of go through the motions. Then you’re not getting … it’s not fair to the artist.

Warren Huart:

Yep. I agree. That makes absolutely perfect sense. So you and Howard did this [inaudible 00:14:20] with STL.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yes.

Warren Huart:

I suppose the obvious question is how often are you using it combined with live amps because everybody is going to ask that.

Mike Plotnikoff:

You know what? I’m using it all the time now because I put it in and there’s a tightness that you don’t get from a tube amp because you get that movement. So this is always … So now all my tracks I have the amp that I record and then I record the plug in and I record just a plain DIs, but they are recorded on separate tracks.

Warren Huart:

Okay.

Mike Plotnikoff:

So if you want to use just a plug in you can, and if you want to use just a live amp, if you want to use them together, it depends on the mix how you want them blended.

Warren Huart:

Well I know everybody’s going to want to know. It’s the question if I was listening to this would be like when you come to mix what do you generally do?

Mike Plotnikoff:

It’s song by song, but they’re in there and I would say like when I try to record, I try to … If you put all my faders at a straight line, it’s going to sound like the record. So you’re within a couple DB. It’s not like, “Oh. I got just a hair of this in.” It’s yeah. You put them even and it’s pretty good, but all my levels are set. And this is where I want it. So if I put my amp level here and I put my plug in level here, that’s kind of how I want that balance to be. Now obviously if we come to the mix and there’s something in there that, you know what? The tube amps are a little too much air or taking up too much woof in the low mids or something, then we’ll pull that back, maybe use a little plug in or EQ that out. Or vice versa. If I want maybe a little more woofer error, maybe I’ll pull the plug in down a little bit.

Warren Huart:

What was the process in creating this?

Mike Plotnikoff:

Well, STL came to Sunny who owns the company. He really liked the sound of a couple of a records we did, which were I think was like Saosin, and a band called Starting Line, All American Rejects. He was big fans of those records. He was from Australia and a producer as well. And he contacted Howard through Howard’s managements. Said, “I would love to do a kemper pack on these tones.” And so Howard talked to me and he goes, “Well, why don’t we do this kemper pack?” And I said, “Sure. This’ll be great.” We’ve documented all of our sounds since 2000. We have, I’ll show you even, every guitar sound we’ve ever done with every band is labeled. We have binders for every sound. So we could pull up Papa Roach from 2004, or POD from 2001, and here’s the guitar tone we used. This is the guitar. This is the amp. Went through this need pre-amp through this pedal.

Mike Plotnikoff:

So we just came in and spent a week modeling all the tones. And it was amazing because we have all the drives too so we could put up, “Oh. Here’s POD’s record.” We matched it to it and it was close. Like seriously we were just going we were so surprised that we were able to match it that quick and then just modeled it into the kemper tones. So the kemper packs started doing well and then Howard and I had the discussion, “Well, you know what? We should do a plug in. Why don’t we take those sounds and make the plug in?” And then that’s how the plug in originated. People seem to really like it. We’ve been getting great reviews on it.

Warren Huart:

I’ve played with it. It’s great.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah. It’s really good.

Warren Huart:

Is this pretty typical of your mic’ing?

Mike Plotnikoff:

These guys are typical of the mic’ing right now. So these stay up. Bogner Cab.

Warren Huart:

Yep.

Mike Plotnikoff:

I’m really a 57 guy for guitars and that’s what I’ve always recorded. Sometimes I’ll put the KSM 32 in there if I want a little low end, but 99% of all my guitar tones that I’ve ever always done is a 57. And I just came through that because when I did the … We talked about ACDC.

Warren Huart:

Yep.

Mike Plotnikoff:

With Angus, when I worked with Bruce on there when we redid some of Malcom’s guitars back then, it was just the 57. When I worked with Eddie Van Halen, when I did the Balance record, only a 57. That’s all he wanted on there. So I just thought it always worked. So I just stayed with the 57 and, again, everybody always liked my … nobody ever complained about my guitar sounds and it was just a thing. I’ve tried other things. 87s and 414s.

Warren Huart:

Any double mic’ing?

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah. Double mic’ing.

Warren Huart:

Any of that?

Mike Plotnikoff:

I’ve tried that and it’s okay, but I always just find there’s always a little bit of phasing or something. I just find the 57 is just a pure tone.

Warren Huart:

When you’re dealing with bands like you were talking about earlier, like In Flames, bands like that which are going to like low A, low B, do you feel even the 57 still gets that?

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah. Yeah. Just it’s always tight. For me, it gets all of what I need.

Warren Huart:

Right.

Mike Plotnikoff:

It’s the purest tone. I find that it captures what I need without having to EQ or anything. It’s always worked for me. And I’m sure everybody has their own way of doing it, but for me, in my years, in the way I build the song up and track the guitars, drums, bass, 57 guitars always sit there.

Warren Huart:

Nice, but that’s interesting to see that Shure there, that KSM.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah. It’s KSM and I like it because it does add a little bit of bottom in. Say like you just said, like In Flames if they want a little more oh.

Warren Huart:

Yeah.

Mike Plotnikoff:

I’ll add just a little bit, but I’m very picky on how much I add in with the KSM. And I just like the KSM. It’s another sure microphone. And to me, it just sounds good. 414s are nice too, but I just find they get a little hashy on the top end, which I don’t like and that, for me, the KSM rolls it off. It gives me the low end punch that I want.

Warren Huart:

Are you going to bounce those to one?

Mike Plotnikoff:

One track.

Warren Huart:

One track. Okay.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yes. Yes. One track.

Warren Huart:

Do you find you’re sort of like here’s your 57 and you’re just blending that-

Mike Plotnikoff:

Exactly. Exactly. Just I find the 57. I get my level. Play with the amp EQ.

Warren Huart:

Yep. Yep.

Mike Plotnikoff:

And once I’m happy with that and I go, “Okay. That sounds good, but I need a little more low end.” Then I’ll just bring in the KSM and I’ll go, “Okay. That feels good right there.” And I just want it to be just a flavor. Not too much of it. So I’m very cautious how much I put in.

Warren Huart:

So you’re finding your EQs all amps are-

Mike Plotnikoff:

All amp.

Warren Huart:

You’re not doing anything on the console?

Mike Plotnikoff:

I never EQ the console. Ever for guitars.

Warren Huart:

Great.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Never EQ or never compressed once. And I’ll move the mics around too. So for the mics, it’s like an old trick I learned a long time ago. Little Mountain, I forget who I was working with and they’re basically putting the headphones on, putting the hiss … I always use the 50/150 hiss because I find it’s the best hiss. And I sit here in the headphones and I move the mic around until I go, “Oh. Yeah. I like where that sounds.” And that’s what I do. And I still use that today.

Warren Huart:

That’s fantastic.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah.

Warren Huart:

And over here I see you’ve got a 421.

Mike Plotnikoff:

I do. The only time I use a 421 is for leads. Build my rhythm tracks.

Warren Huart:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Mike Plotnikoff:

And when we’re doing solos I find I’ll lead with the 421. That’s the only time because I just find it has that nice 4K punch that I don’t have to use and it cuts through the 57 wall of guitar sound.

Warren Huart:

Great.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah. And then it’s the opposite on there. So mostly 421. And I go, “Yeah. That’s good, but I like the sound, the warmth of the 57.” So I add a little 57 until I go, “Yeah. It’s pretty good with the warmth,” because sometimes the 4K for me is like too much of the 421.

Warren Huart:

And then I see these two cabs here.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah.

Warren Huart:

Back to the 57 and the KSM.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah. So and they all have different speakers in each amp. So that Marshall there is an early ’70s and it has the original Celestion 25 black back speakers in it.

Warren Huart:

Yep.

Mike Plotnikoff:

And then the Wizards have all different combinations of speakers in there. And Rick, he’s great. So he came in and he basically set up all these amps, the cabinets, for me with different speaker combinations that I would like and from listening to what I did. So there’s some that have vintage 30s in them. I forget what each one has in there. I should know this now. I’d have to take the backs off to tell you exactly, but they’re all different combinations in each cabinet.

Warren Huart:

And you have favorites that you-

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yes, I do. So they’re different. So I know what they all sound like.

Warren Huart:

Great.

Mike Plotnikoff:

It’s hard to explain. So I’ll go, okay. For this one I want this. For the leads I like the 25s. I just do.

Warren Huart:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Mike Plotnikoff:

I just like the way the 25, they break up and with the 421, for me, lead guitars … it always works. That’s always my go to whether I use it or not, but I say 99% of the time.

Warren Huart:

Fantastic.

Mike Plotnikoff:

And then I know depending on the tuning of what Wizards going to sound the best. Whether I use the slant, whether I use the straight cabs, or whether I use the Bogner. And that Bogner cab sounds really good as well too. So it’s super tight and modern sounding. So it sounds like really good with the In Flames stuff. And it really has a nice break. The speakers break up really nice in there. The original Bogner, they’re 30s in there, but I’m not sure what make of 30s are in there, but I know it’s the original Bogner cab.

Warren Huart:

And you find the 30s are better for like the full rhythm sound?

Mike Plotnikoff:

For the full rhythm sound.

Warren Huart:

Yeah.

Mike Plotnikoff:

They’re just tight. They don’t break up and I don’t get that woofiness out of there.

Warren Huart:

Right.

Mike Plotnikoff:

And again, with everybody using plugins now and everybody wanting that super tight sound, those speakers sound really good. They’re tight for it.

Warren Huart:

Amazing.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah.

Warren Huart:

So is this stuff here, you’ve been doing some like slightly different stuff like the Super Reverb?

Mike Plotnikoff:

Well, again, so if you know the records that Howard and I do, they’re always built kind of the same structure. Like we really build the same house. Combo amps we use a lot for like octaves, all the clean sounds.

Warren Huart:

Okay.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Everything to put on top is the overdub because after I get my main rhythms I don’t want to use 4×12’s and amps anymore. I want to go off the combo. So I’ll go to the Watkins or you see the Vox up there. I got the Gibson. I got another Watkins up there. And so these amps always sound good. Again, because I don’t want to EQ or compress, so when I put one of these cabs it’s a completely different frequency, different sound, different animal. So it’s almost like, “Oh. Is that a keyboard?” Then you put a pedal on it. You don’t have to do anything. I could just put a little bit and they’d come out super clear and clean.

Warren Huart:

When you’re layering the rhythm parts.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Warren Huart:

Do you use multiple amps on performances or do you just stay with like one?

Mike Plotnikoff:

I stay with one. Every now and then I’ll use multiple, but for me I find that … I tried. And I know a lot of people use it. I know like I was telling you about Bob Rock. He uses multiple all the time, but every time I do it, I always have a phasing problem.

Warren Huart:

Sure.

Mike Plotnikoff:

There’s always phasing issues. No matter what, I always go, “Yeah. It’s an interesting sound, but I’m losing this frequency in here.” No matter what I do.

Warren Huart:

Sure.

Mike Plotnikoff:

You can’t flip the phase. It’s in between.

Warren Huart:

Yep.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Even if I move mics. It’s a little in between. I go, “Well, I don’t like the way it’s taking that.” So me, it’s simple. I try to keep it simple.

Warren Huart:

And on the production question, is it one main performance on the left, one main performance on the right?

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah.

Warren Huart:

Or are you finding you’re doubling up?

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah. So it’s one main performance.

Warren Huart:

Yep.

Mike Plotnikoff:

So I do the same. I record all the same. So I do the choruses first.

Warren Huart:

Yeah.

Mike Plotnikoff:

So I always build the chorus. So I started the chorus and I doubled the chorus.

Warren Huart:

Yep.

Mike Plotnikoff:

And sometimes we fly them in today’s world. It depends what the band wanted. If the band wanted the song to be a little … move top to bottom, then we’ll do each chorus separate, but if they want it to be like … and we talk about that. So every band is different, what they want. Do they want each chorus to be exactly the same? So then we’ll fly, but so I’ll double it up. Then I’ll triple quad them. So then I’ll take another guitar.

Warren Huart:

Yeah.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Another amp.

Warren Huart:

Yeah.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Different speakers and then I triple quad. So the choruses have one, two, three, four layers.

Warren Huart:

Each side?

Mike Plotnikoff:

Each side. So one, one and two, and then three and four. Left, right, left, right. So all my choruses, all the time. Do it the same way all the time.

Warren Huart:

That’s amazing.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yes. And then I add what I call power guitar is underneath it. So pretty much just the roots underneath. Just holding and then I’ll use another guitar, another speaker.

Warren Huart:

With those power guitars as like a baritone?

Mike Plotnikoff:

Baritone. Yeah. Something different again. We’ll find what works for it, but yeah. Baritone is used a lot. And again, everything is always a different amp except for this main. So it’d be single, double, which are the exact same guitar.

Warren Huart:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Mike Plotnikoff:

Same amp, same cabinet. Then I’ll do the triple guitar of that and that’ll be a different guitar, different amp, different cabinet, and then do that. And then if I do the power-

Warren Huart:

And each of those are doubled?

Mike Plotnikoff:

And then those are doubled.

Warren Huart:

Yeah.

Mike Plotnikoff:

And then I’ll do a power guitar single and a double. And that’ll be a different … and those are usually through an amp, through a 4×12. Then if there’s overdubs, or octaves, or arpeggios, or whatever, or a melody guitar, whatever the hook is over top, then I will go … Everything then is a combo amp. Or like the silver tone or something weird.

Warren Huart:

Right.

Mike Plotnikoff:

So it’s never traditional.

Warren Huart:

Great.

Mike Plotnikoff:

That’s where I go, “Okay. Now I’m going to experiment.” That’s going through some weird pedal and that’s where the difference comes, but everything else is … the rhythms are really stock. They’re actually pretty simple. More than you would think. You would go like, “Oh. What’s he doing?” But it’s really what’s overtop of it in the hook that’s making-

Warren Huart:

Right, but you’re also got acquired knowledge because you’re going up and you’re setting the amp up so it’s not woofing all over the place with the low end so that-

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah. So the guitars are tight and I really like … So for my guitars it’s very important there’s no woof. I do not like woof and I don’t like that 200 [inaudible 00:27:24] it’s really tight in the mid range. 800 to 1K, I don’t like to try to get above 3K on the guitars. Maybe a little bit on 5K when it’s mixing, but try to stay there because then it starts getting in the way of the, to me, to the vocals and the high end of the snare and the cymbals. Then it starts getting to be a mess in that area.

Warren Huart:

Right.

Mike Plotnikoff:

So I try to keep the guitars all in that maybe start … 600 starts creeping in and that eight. That’s kind of where I like my guitars with that like, what I call, a throaty crunch. I just want to feel it in here. And I don’t want to really feel a lot of low end from the guitars because there enough in the bass and there’s enough in the kick drum and all that to fill it in.

Warren Huart:

Do you ever use any room?

Mike Plotnikoff:

I do, but-

Warren Huart:

But just for the lead stuff?

Mike Plotnikoff:

Just for the lead stuff, for the combo stuff.

Warren Huart:

Yeah.

Mike Plotnikoff:

I don’t use it for the big amps, but I do use some room every now and that. And we’ll try different things too. Like, “Hey. Let’s throw it in the corner there and mic the wall.” Like a weird reflection or something.

Warren Huart:

Amazing.

Mike Plotnikoff:

So we’ll play around with that too. Depends, again. I try to treat each song like it’s its own entity. So I work on one song and finish it.

Warren Huart:

Great.

Mike Plotnikoff:

And then do the next song. And everyone becomes its own little animal with some, what I call, like a thread that keeps it coherent top to bottom, but everyone is a little bit different all the way through. So it’s not like I just dial that in and that’s the same for the record. Let’s just go. Like some people go, okay. Here’s our rhythm sound. Let’s do all the rhythms and then I don’t do that. It’s like let’s get that whole song done. All the rhythms, all the leads, and then I do the bass. And then, when that’s done, then it goes to Howard and then Howard does all the vocals.

Warren Huart:

Fantastic.

Mike Plotnikoff:

So that’s our kind of chain of command. And then we have an editor, Paul DeCarli, who’s amazing. And he’s been working with us for, I don’t know, 15 years now. And he worked with Bob Rock, worked on Metallica and stuff. Great editor. So he does all our editing. So as soon as I finish the tracks, upload it onto our server. It has it all edited and by the next day it goes to Howard. Howard does all the vocals. Howard uploads all the vocals to him. He edits it. And then Hatch, our assistant puts it all together.

Warren Huart:

That’s amazing.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah. So it takes a team to work and do all of these things.

Warren Huart:

And then you’re mixing.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yes. And then we’ll mix it after.

Warren Huart:

Fantastic. And you mix in a hybrid fashion on the console? So-

Mike Plotnikoff:

No. Okay. So if I do my own projects, I do because I’m in here every day. If I’m mixing a project for Howard, our project, it’s 100% in the box because Howard doesn’t want … Howard has his own studio at home. We have the exact same plugins, everything. So whatever opens up in my computer, opens up in his computer. So if I do a mix and Howard doesn’t want to come down and listen to it here, I just send him the session file. He opens it at home and if he wants to make a little change, he does, and then he’ll call me. He goes, “Hey Mike, I made a change. Here. Check it out. Do you like it or not? Or can you do this?” So he doesn’t want to come down here where it’s going through the console, but if I’m doing another band or somebody sends me stuff I’ll do some through the console. Everything’s just at zero, but all the automations in Pro Tools.

Warren Huart:

Great.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Here’s some of my guitars here. Start here. So this is-

Warren Huart:

That’s gorgeous.

Mike Plotnikoff:

That’s a 79 Les Paul custom. This guitar is a 58 all original Les Paul Junior. And this is used.

Warren Huart:

Gorgeous.

Mike Plotnikoff:

This is the main rhythms on 90% of all our records.

Warren Huart:

Oh wow.

Mike Plotnikoff:

And it sounds amazing. Even in a low tuning. It just has this throaty sound and no guitar sounds like it.

Warren Huart:

I’m seeing the Trini Lopez coming up.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah. Trini Lopez.

Warren Huart:

Oh.

Mike Plotnikoff:

This is a 67 Trini Lopez and-

Warren Huart:

Gorgeous.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Use it a lot as well, which sounds amazing. This is really good for overdubs, octaves, arpeggios. If you want some strumming chords. Then a 74 [Strat 00:31:14], pretty stock.

Warren Huart:

Great.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yep.

Warren Huart:

What do you find using the three bolt Strat for?

Mike Plotnikoff:

The Strat’s just if you want that Strat tone. Again, it’s all a little for overdubs, or taste, or color inside the track of our heaviness where there’s like something going on. What’s that sound in the back? Is that a keyboard? Is that a guitar?

Warren Huart:

But this is getting a lot of love for the heavy parts?

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah. This one and this one also is getting a lot of love, which is a longer scale baritone. It’s a Schecter. I have another Les Paul, which a friend of mine is using right now which sounds really good. I used it a lot on the In Flames record which sounds good.

Warren Huart:

And now they’re coming in with seven strings?

Mike Plotnikoff:

No. It’s all six strings.

Warren Huart:

Oh.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yes.

Warren Huart:

Are you finding you’re working with bands with a lot of seven strings?

Mike Plotnikoff:

The bands I’ve worked with, with seven strings are the band Issues I worked with.

Warren Huart:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Mike Plotnikoff:

They were seven string. Fear Factory is seven string. Maybe Escape The Fate was seven strings as well. They’re going really low and they’re dropping to A. And then it’s just like, “oh, okay.” Or B or they’re way down there in the basement. So then, yeah. We’ll use a seven string, but most of the bands are six string.

Warren Huart:

And you’ve got the baritone to cover that?

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah. And the baritone. I use either this one which is just a little longer scale. We’ve got the Dan Electro baritone out there.

Warren Huart:

Great.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Which is good. It sounds amazing. And this is used a lot on Three Days Grace for all the stuff they-

Warren Huart:

And that’s connecting like the bass guitar with the rhythms.

Mike Plotnikoff:

It is. Yeah.

Warren Huart:

It’s just sitting nicely.

Mike Plotnikoff:

It’s just sitting. And always single note on that.

Warren Huart:

Right. Oh. Single notes.

Mike Plotnikoff:

It’s always single notes.

Warren Huart:

Do you have a preferred bass?

Mike Plotnikoff:

You know what? I prefer a jazz bass. That’s my favorite to record. A Fender Jazz Bass. It just always sounds good. I don’t have a great bass of my own, which-

Warren Huart:

Right.

Mike Plotnikoff:

So it’s usually I record what the band has.

Warren Huart:

Right.

Mike Plotnikoff:

I use the bands bass.

Warren Huart:

And the bass and peg?

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah and I have a 810 here which is mic’d up.

Warren Huart:

Again, the KSN?

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah.

Warren Huart:

And a 420. Wow.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah. So they just, again, for me it’s just all blending. And it all blends together without using too much. Keep everything in the same family.

Warren Huart:

How many inputs on the bass? Like a DI and an amp, or?

Mike Plotnikoff:

No, I use the amp.

Warren Huart:

Yep.

Mike Plotnikoff:

A DI, a distortion track, and a sub track. So I’ll show you the sub.

Warren Huart:

Oh yeah. The sub. Let’s see.

Mike Plotnikoff:

So, the sub I have running through here and I mic the port down there with … I forget what.

Warren Huart:

It’s look like a Beta 52.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah a Beta 52. That’s exactly what it is. Thank you. So I mic that. The way we have the studio wired, the guitar player always sits basically right here.

Warren Huart:

Yep.

Mike Plotnikoff:

He plugs into here. So this cable runs into my splitter. So out of the splitter for bass, I’ll go into my Ampeg SVT Bass Amp. I’ll take another one and run it into Ampeg SVT Pro. And basically what I do here, so this is the sub. So I’m cutting everything except and cranking all the lows. So all I’m getting is the sub. I’m getting nothing but sub. It’s just the lowest frequency.

Warren Huart:

Fantastic.

Mike Plotnikoff:

And the way it’s patched there, you take the bi-amp out of the head.

Warren Huart:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Mike Plotnikoff:

And the guy in Fear Factory showed me this. So I’ve been using it ever since.

Warren Huart:

Oh great.

Mike Plotnikoff:

So since Trick actually and after that I go, “I got to get that head,” because nothing sounds like it. I remember even first time Chris Lord-Alge mixed something for us, he goes, “How do you get that sub sound on your bass?” And I go this is what it is. And it has to be this combination. It just works with that cabinet and with this head. It has to be this SVT-4 Pro through that. That’s an SVT Pro. And then I run another one through the SansAmp here.

Warren Huart:

Yeah.

Mike Plotnikoff:

And then a DI just automatically always comes into Pro Tools 24, into my thing. So there would be four tracks. The amp, DI, the distortion, and the sub track.

Warren Huart:

Nice. And what was the amp again?

Mike Plotnikoff:

The amp is the SVT. Right here.

Warren Huart:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Mike Plotnikoff:

Which is an early 70s SVT.

Warren Huart:

Early 70s one here.

Mike Plotnikoff:

And it’s been modded by Mark [Vangavel 00:35:31]?

Warren Huart:

The name rings a bell, but I don’t think.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah. He techs for everybody. He’s an amazing tech. So it’s like whatever he did, he tightened it up so it’s super tight and clean. It has that real piano, tight piano tone.

Warren Huart:

Beautiful.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah. And then every now and then I like this pedal on it. I’ll use on the bass which I like a lot. B7K, this pedal, which sounds great for little distortion.

Warren Huart:

[crosstalk 00:35:53].

Mike Plotnikoff:

It’s great for bass, but it gives it like the bass tone.

Warren Huart:

Finland.

Mike Plotnikoff:

It’s amazing. Yeah, I highly recommend. Their pedals are really good. And the distortion in the SansAmp … We’ll play around with the SansAmp. That’s most of the case every now and then. We will run it into like a Wizard amp instead and then I’ll put a pedal on it for distortion as well. Because some bands think that a SansAmp is too processed or too fuzzy sounding for the bass distortion.

Warren Huart:

Right.

Mike Plotnikoff:

So they go, “Oh. I’m not into that.” So we’ll run it through an amp like really quiet, the bass.

Warren Huart:

And there’s that sort of emotional response as well. Like, “It’s a real amp.”

Mike Plotnikoff:

It’s a real amp and they like that. So we’ll do that and then I’ll use something like the big [inaudible 00:36:34] Fuzz War or whatever on it.

Warren Huart:

Death by Audio Fuzz War. That’s-

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah. That pedal sounds great. It’s just-

Warren Huart:

And I like the setting.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah. Cranked.

Warren Huart:

Everything at 11.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Everything at 11. Turn it up. Turn it up and see what happens. Well, here we got some of our amps. Some of the collection and then there’s a few down there as well. I have the Silvertone, another Wizard, and a Vox Transistor Amp sitting right there too, which sounds great on Queens. So where do you want to start on the guitars?

Warren Huart:

Well, I think off camera we were talking about how you were saying different amps perform better with low string stuff.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah.

Warren Huart:

I think you were saying you were sort of focusing more these days on the Wizards and the 5150?

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yes. So basically like for the last few years we’ve been doing more metal, or active rock, modern rock bands that are all into low tuning. Either B or C. The B’s, A’s, or C, C sharp. So I find for that, the 5150 … This is like the original 5150 and I had Matty Bruck who is Eddie Van Halen’s guitar tech, when? Because I got to know Matty really well doing the Van Halen record. And he did the mod in this 5150. So it’s the same one that Eddie had in the 90s.

Warren Huart:

Amazing.

Mike Plotnikoff:

So this amp sounds great and I use it on so many records. Anybody that plugs it in, they go … Like I’ll go, “Let’s audition amps.” And then we go to the 5150, “That’s it. That’s the amp.” It just sounds good.

Warren Huart:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Mike Plotnikoff:

And it just works all the time and it works in low tunings. It’s tight.

Warren Huart:

I know a lot of people, that’s their favorite amp.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah. It just sounds good and I don’t know. It works for the kind of music we do. It’s always reliable. If I want a little bit of extra grit on it or distortion, I’ll put the Tube Screamer on it for the more metal projects they’ll like the Tube Screamer on it. Then I also like the Wizard 50. This sounds really good. It just has a mid range that no other amp has. It cuts through and it’s tight, sounds good, holds all the low tunings. So that’s another one of my favorite amps. Both Wizards actually. That one or that one. Even the MCII down there sounds great. So those are more for the modern things. That amp down there is a 1970 Marshall Major 200W.

Warren Huart:

Wow those are huge. I remember those.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah.

Warren Huart:

So loud. Yeah.

Mike Plotnikoff:

It’s so loud and I had Friedman…

Warren Huart:

Yeah.

Mike Plotnikoff:

He did the mod in it.

Warren Huart:

Oh fantastic.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah. So it’s the same mod, apparently, that he did for Eddie Van Halen, but that amp sounds amazing too. So that amps used a lot. So basically 80 to 90% of our records would be 5150 with the Wizards, that, and also the Bogner. Can’t forget the Uberschall. So they’re kind of all used and everybody always has the same reaction to all of them. You plug them in and no matter what, the minute you put up the fader they go, “That’s the sound.” And because everything’s set up. Nothing really changes here. Your keys don’t really change. We have them all set. So those are our favorite. The Orange will be used as well, which-

Warren Huart:

Using those for lead tones, or?

Mike Plotnikoff:

Lead, even rhythms. Lead’s honestly my favorite, like I told you. To do the leads as a Silvertone through the Super Reverb speakers.

Warren Huart:

Oh.

Mike Plotnikoff:

So I use the Super Reverb speakers so I disconnect the amp from it and then just use the speakers for it because I don’t have to EQ it. It has its own frequency. It’s like, what do you call it? I don’t know. It just sits in there. I don’t have to EQ.

Warren Huart:

It just cuts through it.

Mike Plotnikoff:

It just cuts right through it. You could just bring up the fader a little bit and no matter your wall of guitars and you go, “Well, there’s the lead tone.”

Warren Huart:

Yep.

Mike Plotnikoff:

So I really like the combos for leads. If I’m doing octaves and stuff with blend, I love the Sound City’s, the 50W. Or I have a 100W too. Mark’s actually fixing it. And a 120. And the Sound City’s just sound cool to me. They have a tone like no other tone. They’re interesting and no matter what record I do, when people go … they’ll go, “Oh. I love the sound of that record you did and I love this song. What guitars are you using?” And I’ll look up or I’ll throw up the session and I go, “Man, Sound City’s on that one.”

Warren Huart:

Yep.

Mike Plotnikoff:

It’s always the Sound City is on that one. And the Daughtry record, we did their first Daughtry record, is a lot of the Sound City’s. And it has that kind of fuzzy tone to it almost. It’s not a real clear tone.

Warren Huart:

Yeah.

Mike Plotnikoff:

It has this fuzziness about it, but super warm, but it’s clear yet.

Warren Huart:

It’s just amazing. We were talking about off camera earlier how those kind of amps when we were kids were worth nothing.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah.

Warren Huart:

Oh. You haven’t got a Marshall? And then used they were like 50 pounds when I was a kid.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah. I know.

Warren Huart:

And now they’re what we want because they’re all different.

Mike Plotnikoff:

They’re all different and they sound different. And it’s even like we talked about the plugins. Like a lot of the plugins. The plugins just sound the same. And I love plugins and stuff. And they do their thing, but they don’t have that separation that you still get from the real things. The real things give you that separation. And to me, that separation-

Warren Huart:

There’s so many more variables.

Mike Plotnikoff:

There’s so many more variables. Yeah. There’s so many more variables. And even from the amps, it’s just you don’t have to try almost. It’s like running through an Eve console. It’s just going to sound good. The harmonics are good. They’re so musical right off the bat. You just bring it up and you go, “Oh. I don’t have to do anything.” It’s just there.

Warren Huart:

Well let’s go look at the new console. So where should we start on this? I men the 8058, absolutely gorgeous.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Like Howard said, when we move from Bay Seven, that’s where we recorded all our records on 8058s. So we knew when we were moving, if we wanted to keep the same sounds from our other records and why people came to us, it was important to have an 8058. Either we were going to buy racks of them or find a console. It just happened on Vintage King this showed up. I saw it. I called Howard. Howard said, “Let’s get it.”

Warren Huart:

Great.

Mike Plotnikoff:

And then he said, you saw in his interview, how patched [inaudible 00:42:18] come. And he redid everything. Took it all apart, cleaned it all, put all new switches in it, made it race ready.

Warren Huart:

Race ready. I like that.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah. Race ready. So the console-

Warren Huart:

Pat is a wonder by the way. Not only is he really good with Neve consoles, he’s also a sweetheart.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah. Amazing.

Warren Huart:

Very easy to work with.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah. Amazing. Got the console in tip top shape and it sounds amazing. You can’t go wrong with it. It’s hard to make a mistake with it. You bring anything through it and it’s just going to sound good. And I know a lot of people have their own things and not everybody has a Neve console. Since I’ve been tracking, I’ve used Neve.

Warren Huart:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Mike Plotnikoff:

It’s either like Neve through an SSL or it’s … It’s always been Neve. So for me, that’s what I’ve been used to. New people come up and use different stuff in today’s era, but I still have part of that old school that I brought with me. So I just stay with it. That’s what works for me. And I know how it works. So I just keep using it. And yeah. For me, it’s musical. I love how the harmonics sound on it. I like how it distorts, if you want to distort the console or run it clean. It works either way. And to me, that’s important.

Warren Huart:

Yep.

Mike Plotnikoff:

And what I like about it to is it’s hard to make a mistake.

Warren Huart:

Sure.

Mike Plotnikoff:

It doesn’t matter what. Even if you’re not sure in your tracking and sometimes you get lost or you go down that rabbit hole in the middle of a record. I know, I trust the console, that when I put that song up a week later of when I recorded, “Oh yeah. It actually sounds really good.” I was panicking that day. It’s not as bad as I thought it was because the Neve saved me that day for when I wasn’t on. And that’s what I like about it. So when I’m on, it performs, but if I’m not on that day I know that whatever I run through there is going to pretty good anyways. And nobody’s going to come after me and go, “Why did you record these?” Or say, “Chris Lord Alge’s mixing the record we did.” He’s not calling me, “Mike, you got that console in there. What kind of sounds did you give me?” It’s going to be good regardless. It captures the right harmonics. And especially since I don’t destroy the sound by EQing or compressing. I try to keep everything as natural as possible. It’s going to be good.

Warren Huart:

Fantastic.

Mike Plotnikoff:

It’s just the sound is going to be there. So for me, that’s importance. Again, it’s like trying not to get myself into trouble down the line because a lot of times I don’t know if I’m going to mix the record. I don’t know. Maybe it goes to Chis Lord Alge. Maybe it goes to Serb… And so I got to be prepared that if this is going to some top guy, I don’t want a phone call going, “I can’t mix this record because the sounds suck on it.”

Warren Huart:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Mike Plotnikoff:

No wonder you can’t mix it. So I want to make sure they get the best sounds. And I know with this that I’m in pretty good shape even on my worst days. To me, that’s important. That I can go home and sleep and go, “Oh, okay. Yeah. It’s going to spike to mix and I know it’s going to be good.”

Warren Huart:

You’ve got an array of monitors here.

Mike Plotnikoff:

I’d oh.

Warren Huart:

The great thing is, obviously, you can be at seating … And are you running Pro Tools all yourself-

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yes, I am.

Warren Huart:

The whole time?

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yes.

Warren Huart:

Okay. So you’re the everything.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah.

Warren Huart:

Pro Tools engineer.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah.

Warren Huart:

And the engineer.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah.

Warren Huart:

Which I relate to I think.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yes.

Warren Huart:

That makes perfect sense. So do you find yourself NS-10s a lot, Amphions, KRKs, Adams, is there a process?

Mike Plotnikoff:

So for me, it’s NS-10s 90% of the time.

Warren Huart:

Okay.

Mike Plotnikoff:

And I’m on them. I know what they sound like all the time. I don’t run a sub on them even though there is a sub under there.

Warren Huart:

Right.

Mike Plotnikoff:

I don’t use a sub on them. So that’s my main thing. If it sounds good in the NS-10s, and again because I grew up on NS-10s from … that’s all I’ve listened to for 30 years so I’m used to them. I’ve tried other monitors. I like the Amphions, but they’re more of a finishing for me. Like at the very end when I’m happy with the mix, I’ll put them on the Amphions and they’ll show me a few little things. It’s hard for me to start to fix on them. I can’t. Tracking is all NS-10s, or Adams, or KRKs, but mainly NS-10s.

Warren Huart:

Is that a lot for maybe when you have members of the band sitting around?

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yes. So when the members of the band are here and they want it loud, it’s the SA3As, the Adams.

Warren Huart:

Yeah.

Mike Plotnikoff:

And I got a big sub there. So I could crank it and they feel it.

Warren Huart:

Yeah. Yeah.

Mike Plotnikoff:

And so its all for them. And again, if I’m mixing here and I want to hear what the bottom end is and I want to crank it up because we don’t have large monitors, I have a pretty good idea of what the low end’s going to sound like. Again, hard for me to mix 100% on the Adam’s, they’re again for the very end or checking just the low end. And it stands for-

Warren Huart:

Pretty fun for bass players as well?

Mike Plotnikoff:

Bass players? Yeah. Fun for bass players. They all like the low end. Some guitar players like to track through it. If they want to track really loud. I prefer still the NS-10s for tracking.

Warren Huart:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Mike Plotnikoff:

Everything, like I’d rather have the bass player and guitar player through NS-10s.

Warren Huart:

So when I only worked on NS-10s it was like if the snare drum and the guitars sounded really offensive.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah.

Warren Huart:

That’s when they were good.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah. That’s exactly me too. Like I go, if it’s bright and it’s hurting my ears and it’s like … I take it out and it’s perfect.

Warren Huart:

Yeah. Yeah.

Mike Plotnikoff:

And if I can hear, and people go, “Well how do you hear your low end on it?” I go, well I don’t. I cover them up now, but I used to just wash the woofer. I go, well if the woofer’s moving a certain way I know my low ends okay.

Warren Huart:

Yep.

Mike Plotnikoff:

And for me as well, if I could hear the kick in bass in the NS-10s and it’s clear in the NS-10s, the bottom end is pretty good anywhere I go. And because we’re not doing hip hop or R&B where you need a real lot of low sub, I just find I’m pretty close with the NS-10s.

Warren Huart:

You’ve been doing this long enough that you know?

Mike Plotnikoff:

I know where it is.

Warren Huart:

Yeah.

Mike Plotnikoff:

So I’m not really searching for it. Now if I mix on the Adams and I’m listening to the low end, I go, “Man, the low end’s amazing in here.” I spend too much time on there, I go to the NS-10 and I’m wrong. Or I go to my car or my home, I’m off, but if I stay … If I don’t even touch anything else and I just stay in the NS-10s and then every now and then I’ll check it on the Auratones. If I’m right in those speakers, I’m always within, “Oh just bump up, the lead guitar needs to come up. Or maybe that harmony is a little too loud. Here.” That’s it. It’s really levels that you want. Once it sounds good in there, and again, like you said because I’ve been doing it so long and it’s every day. I’ve worked every day almost for my whole life for 30 years doing this. And I know what they sound like. I know what my tools do and I don’t really have to think about it.

Mike Plotnikoff:

And that’s what I want to do, not have to think about, “Am I wrong here?” And if I do get like excited, because it is fun listening with the low end, but you take it out and you go, “Oh. That’s not good.”

Warren Huart:

Yeah.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Like I’ll run into problems on it.

Warren Huart:

You fall in love with that, “Oh yeah. That massive low end.” Yeah. Yeah.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah. So it’s either it’s massive in here and then it’s either just way too massive in the car-

Warren Huart:

Or it’s just low.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Or it’s not there. It’s like in between. It’s like, “Whoa, that’s too much. It’s blowing my speakers out.” Or like, “Huh, I thought I had way more low end than I do.”

Warren Huart:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Mike Plotnikoff:

And it’s in between. It’s very rare that I hit it 100% or on the mark.

Warren Huart:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Mike Plotnikoff:

But if I get it right in there, I go, “Okay. That sounds good it in the NS-10s. Let me crank it in there. Yeah. It sounds good in there. I don’t really have to touch it. It’s there.” So a lot of things, I love these Dolbys. I think they’re very interesting.

Warren Huart:

Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Mike Plotnikoff:

And I saw it because I worked with Brian Adams and he was using these on vocals, on his background vocals. And there was a-

Warren Huart:

Recording or mixing?

Mike Plotnikoff:

Mixing and when we were doing it, we were mixing, but we could record through them as well.

Warren Huart:

Oh wow.

Mike Plotnikoff:

But they have to have a mod in them. So basically they’re Dolliers. And a guy at, when A&M Studios was still there, I forget what the tech’s name was there. So he did those mods. So there’s a mod in these. I’m not sure what it does, but when you run audio through there, it gives it that, even a snare, or background vocals, or sometimes I’ll run like clean guitar through there.

Warren Huart:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Mike Plotnikoff:

It gives it this presence that just feels like whatever’s coming out of the speakers, the minute you put that on, it’s just like right here you get that.

Warren Huart:

Sure.

Mike Plotnikoff:

It has a crunch sound. So I love those and I’ll use those for anything that I really want to pop out of the track. You don’t have to do anything. You jut patch it in. It’s just set how it is and that’s it. They’re always on. They’re never shut off and you just run audio through there. So whatever that Dolby system’s doing with that mod in there does something to the sound that I have no idea what it does.

Warren Huart:

It’s magic.

Mike Plotnikoff:

It’s magic. It is. And that’s one thing about pieces of gear that you just can’t get from a plugin that it-

Warren Huart:

I remember reading that David Kahn uses them a lot on vocals.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah. They sound amazing on vocals.

Warren Huart:

And the Regina Spector sound.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Oh okay.

Warren Huart:

That. Yeah.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That’s what it does.

Warren Huart:

Yeah.

Mike Plotnikoff:

And even if you put it on a snare drum or like a parallel snare drum through there and you add that snare drum in, it’s unbelievable. Again, it’s finding things that you don’t have to do anything to.

Warren Huart:

Right.

Mike Plotnikoff:

And that’s the secret. It’s like I don’t want to sit here and try to get a snare sound for three hours. I just go, I want to hear it. Why can’t I hear it? Well, let’s run it through there. Oh, yeah. I can hear it. Good. Move on. It’s like I don’t want to think about it. Same thing with this Fairchild. It’s really cool. Again, another piece. It’s like a DSer, Fairchild.

Warren Huart:

A 600. I’ve never even seen one.

Mike Plotnikoff:

If you see colors in sound, it’s that color. So the minute you put in that on something, it gives it that color what it is. And it put it’s in a … that you could just never get with EQ. It puts it in the spectrum where I don’t even know how it puts it in that spectrum. You go, “Well, how did they get that sound to sit right there?” Because I can’t EQ it there. I can’t compress it to come there, but you put it on and all of a sudden the sound goes from where I can’t really hear it to go … It just sits in this space that you don’t even know how to get something into that space.

Warren Huart:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Mike Plotnikoff:

Or to your frame or your picture. However you want to do it. So that’s good. I love the Altec on compression, the 436C. It sounds great on clean guitars. If you really want that compressed guitar sound, it has a grid and a distortion.

Warren Huart:

And you have yours, the mod with the attack and release.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Exactly. Yeah.

Warren Huart:

Release and the threshold. Sorry.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah. As far as that, I like that.

Warren Huart:

Yep.

Mike Plotnikoff:

I use the BA-6A a lot. That’s good for like acoustic guitars and stuff. I’ll use it on kick drum every now and then too. I like it on kick if you really want a fat kick, but it’s a parallel as well to blend it in. That gate sounds really cool pre-amp as well, which is tubes. And basically you plug three mics into there and blend it and it sounds just like nothing else sounds.

Warren Huart:

What are you using this on?

Mike Plotnikoff:

I’ll use it actually on rhythm guitars. It was used on the POD rhythm guitars.

Warren Huart:

Oh incredible.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Again, it’s one of those things. You put it in and you have all these frequencies in there and you put that on and there’s no high end, there’s no harshness, it’s super warm, and it puts it in your painting or your frequency spectrum where you go, “Well, I don’t even know what it’s doing that it moves them from there to here where nothing sits.”

Warren Huart:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Mike Plotnikoff:

And there’s certain frequencies that are just hard to get into.

Warren Huart:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Mike Plotnikoff:

You just don’t know how are you getting that guitar into that place? Or how are you getting that snare without any … If I add this EQ, well that’s too loud here. It takes away from that. It just does something where if I look at a picture, it’s like how did you get that right in there in that picture.

Warren Huart:

Yeah.

Mike Plotnikoff:

And it just does it with just running it through it. So again, and finding the simplest way.

Warren Huart:

All part of the palette.

Mike Plotnikoff:

All part of the palette.

Warren Huart:

Yeah.

Mike Plotnikoff:

And again, the-

Warren Huart:

Are you an art lover?

Mike Plotnikoff:

I love art. Yeah.

Warren Huart:

Who’s your favorite painter or painters?

Mike Plotnikoff:

Oh man. Like I love Monet because I just like the way … And I’m a huge Da Vinci because I just think he’s a genius. So I love-

Warren Huart:

Me too. I was just in Rome a few months ago.

Mike Plotnikoff:

I love like anything Da Vinci’s done.

Warren Huart:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Mike Plotnikoff:

Monet because I just like the colors he uses and the colors are just so vibrant and how he does water and all that.

Warren Huart:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Mike Plotnikoff:

So those are probably my favorite. I know they’re easy. They’re all-

Warren Huart:

No. Not at all.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah.

Warren Huart:

I mean there’s a reason why greatness is greatness.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah.

Warren Huart:

I love Caravaggio and Da Vinci and all of the same things. I grew up. My father was a painter.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Oh he was?

Warren Huart:

A sculptor.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah.

Warren Huart:

So I was blessed.

Mike Plotnikoff:

So, yeah. So for me, a lot of it is too and even on like my Instagram if you look at who I follow, like I follow all the painters and all like paint. So there’s a lot of paintings. So actually I take a lot of inspiration from paintings when I’m creating music. So a lot of it is like … because I see colors. So for me, it’s like how do I get that color? Or how do I make that water look like that?

Warren Huart:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Mike Plotnikoff:

And I’ll even look at it, I’ll pull out my Instagram and I’ve got everything saved in my phone for different artists and I’ll go, “I’ll show you.” And I’ll look at the painting and I’ll even like put my phone here with the picture so while I’m mixing I’m looking at the painting. So it gives me ideas. So I do that all the time.

Warren Huart:

That’s amazing.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah. So like for me, it’s like everything’s like a painting and a palette. And now that we’re on a computer screen, so I just kind of use that. Well, there’s my frame. That’s my small frame. So let me see how I can fit that in there. Is it going to be a tree? Or is it going to be, what is it an elephant today? Or am I doing ocean?

Warren Huart:

Yeah.

Mike Plotnikoff:

What is it? Is it a boat?

Warren Huart:

Yeah.

Mike Plotnikoff:

And then usually if I could kind of get it, even though I see it one way, somebody sees it a totally … They’re not going to see it like I do, but they see something.

Warren Huart:

Sure.

Mike Plotnikoff:

As long as I see something, they see something. It might be completely different. I go, “Oh. That’s cool. At least you see something.”

Warren Huart:

Yeah. I agree. Especially when you’re talking about modern art. We all have different interpretations of what the-

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah. Of what it is.

Warren Huart:

Of what it is.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah.

Warren Huart:

But you’re right. If something works as a whole, whether it be a song, a part, the whole feeling, as long as it works as a whole everybody draws their own interpretations. And I actually, I think most of the music we love is a little ambiguous because then you can emotionally connect to it and go, “This song reminds me of this moment in my life.”

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yes.

Warren Huart:

And it speaks to me. And then Eric over there feels exactly the same way that it means something to him, but it’s a whole different experience.

Mike Plotnikoff:

It’s a whole different experience.

Warren Huart:

Yeah.

Mike Plotnikoff:

So we all experience it differently, but as long as you experience it in a way and you experience it in an honest way. Somebody else is going to experience it.

Warren Huart:

Exactly.

Mike Plotnikoff:

It might not be in your way, but they’re going to experience it like, “Whoa. I could experience it too.”

Warren Huart:

Yep.

Mike Plotnikoff:

It’s when you’re a little off and there’s a lot of times that like I’ll be working. I’ll go like I can’t really get to where I want to go. And usually when I’m in that place, everybody else feels the same way too. “Oh. The mix is not quite right. The sounds are … What is it?” And then you have to go back to the drawing board. You kind of know. Like you want to go, “Oh. I think I could get away with it.” But you know that if it’s not working for you, it’s not going to work for anybody else, but when it works for you it usually works for other people as well.

Warren Huart:

But there’s the balance I always find when you’re the engineer and you’re mixing it. That’s definitely like where the integrity really is because you’re creating and getting that whole palette in one go.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Warren Huart:

But then sometimes there’s the commerce side. Where like this wants to be … I think of like the classic Andy Wallace mixes of the 90s where a lot of what I heard him do was mute.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Right.

Warren Huart:

It suddenly became like bass, and drums, and verses, massive guitars, and choruses.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah.

Warren Huart:

And there’s that sort of like to get like this huge emotional response from a difference between a verse and a chorus obviously.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Warren Huart:

So yeah. There’s always that art and commerce balance.

Mike Plotnikoff:

There is and I’m aware of that. I don’t ever want to let my ego get in the way there.

Warren Huart:

Sure.

Mike Plotnikoff:

“Oh. This is this crazy painting.” Because I know if I start getting there and I’m seeing like I’m in this rabbit hole. And I go, “Oh my God, I just created.” I know that it’s going to fail.

Warren Huart:

Right.

Mike Plotnikoff:

So I got to be careful of that too because I go, “Oh, that’s too much.” Or even if I think that’s, that much and I’m liking it that much, the other people out there are going to go, “What is he trying to do?”

Warren Huart:

I agree. And it’s funny. You articulate it better than I can. I can guarantee, the mixes I’ve loved the most have the most corrections from the band.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yes. So I have to be very careful and like I said earlier before. My whole thing now is like, “Yeah. It’s pretty good.” If it’s pretty good, I’m in good shape. If I go, “This is amazing. I just painted the Mona Lisa with whatever in there.” That’s going to fail because there’s so much ego or whatever else in there. It’s just too much of like … For me, yeah. I see it or whatever, but nobody else is. They’re going to go, “This is crazy.”

Warren Huart:

Yeah. I remember when Michael Brauer mixed three or four albums for me in a row I flew out to New York and sat with him. And he said, “I’ve just got to get the song sounding really good and that the artists take it over the finish line.”

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yes.

Warren Huart:

Rather than sit in there with doing all these crazy little detail things that they’re going to be like, “Why did you do that?”

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah. Why did you do that? And I’ve learned my lesson a long time ago. And again, yeah. If it’s pretty good … And like even the way Howard and I work now too, we don’t do any automation until the band comes in. So because if I start automating, I’ve already gone too far. I should be able to go what I recorded, here’s the balances of it, here’s where the kick shifts in. I shouldn’t have to be writing everything. So there’s no automation. So now if Howard and I are okay with the mix, then we go, “Okay. There’s no automation, but you know what? The chorus vocals could come up a DEB.” That’s it. So we’re very careful. Up one DB on the chorus vocals. Now let’s just see where that sits. So it’s very delicate on how we move forward. So then when the band comes in, because yeah. If there’s too many moves, the bands going to be going … They’re not going to understand what’s going on.

Mike Plotnikoff:

They’re going to go, “Why is there so much going on?” They don’t know what’s going on. For you, you’re down that rabbit hole and, “Well, I can see this move and this move. And I EQ’d the reverb here.” There’s all these little pokes and down here, and here, but it gets to be a mess. And you think it’s good while you’re sitting here. You take it out and the band comes in and it’s like it’s a fail. Just take the faders down, start again, but if you leave it kind of in the rough mix position, they go, “Yeah. That’s really good.” And that’s a trick too we use is like never say it’s a master mix. Here’s a rough mix. Here’s a moderate mix. Live on it. They’ll live on it. Turn the lead guitar up a little bit here. The octaves, guitars come down one DB. That’s a good mix. There you go. There’s your mix.

Warren Huart:

Marvelous.

Mike Plotnikoff:

So try to keep it simple. The more simple you can keep it, the better it works, easier it works.

Warren Huart:

Yep. Absolutely.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah.

Warren Huart:

Well, thanks ever so much. This has been fantastic.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Okay. I hope you got some good stuff.

Warren Huart:

Oh no. There’s tons.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah.

Warren Huart:

Please leave a bunch of comments and questions below. This has been really fantastic.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah. I’m happy to do this. Fun doing this.

Warren Huart:

Well, we’ll have to think of other things to do.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Warren Huart:

Marvelous.

Mike Plotnikoff:

Awesome.

Warren Huart:

Have a marvelous time recording and mixing and we’ll see you all again very soon.